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Post by Mickey on Mar 3, 2017 14:15:41 GMT -5
Most of the TD's and Producers I'm working with have started using the project management tools now the VW2017 supports cloud storage.
It has some work to be better, but actually is working pretty well so far.
According the LW6 home page
"Lightwright is Compatible With Vectorworks 2016 and later, Almost...
Lightwright 5 and 6 work great with Vectorworks 2016 and later, except for Vectorworks’ new Project Sharing feature. It is unlikely that Data Exchange will ever work with Project Sharing."
Because of this statement I haven't used LW in my last couple of shows, and luckily they have been really small and I could get away with it, but on larger gigs LW6 is such an integral part of my work flow I had to try it, or come up with a solution.
So I turned on data exchange in my VW "working" file, and did a clean export. I turned on data exchange in LW6, and guess what? It works fine.
Is anyone else using project files, and LW6?
What are your experiences?
Is my file going to explode at some point and lose all of it's data?
Thanks
-mickey
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Post by johnmcsoft on Mar 5, 2017 11:14:08 GMT -5
The problem is that Data Exchange uses a single .xml file to communicate between Lightwright and Vectorworks. With Project Sharing, you may have more than one user working with the VW drawing, but only ONE can share with Vectorworks. Each time Vectorworks gets the focus, it reads data from the .xml file and removes it. Then as you work in VW, it adds entries to the .xml file, which Lightwright reads when it gets the focus, then removes the content and adds its own as you work. You can see how having more than one user on either side of the process would screw everything up.
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Post by Mickey on Mar 5, 2017 17:44:12 GMT -5
Yup, and shortly after this reply I got an email from the TD saying that something had gone wrong in the master file, and he was creating a new file with today's date. I'm assuming I'm the one the created the corruption.
Fucking lame.
I mean yell out loud fucking lame.
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Post by shrunkenned on Mar 5, 2017 21:13:26 GMT -5
Perhaps a solution would be to isolate which user is actively using the lighting portion. Most of my co-authored drawings, I'm the sole contributor to lighting, the other contributors are the other departments that wouldn't touch lighting, and thus wouldn't have a need to read or write from the .xml.
Without out knowing *anything* about how VW handles it in the background, it would be brilliant if there was a VW way to enable multiple editors in a project, and only 1 .xml contributor at a time. A button, or switch that only 1 contributor could have on or enabled at a time, thus allowing only 1 editor to be utilizing the .xml.
#version7
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Post by johnmcsoft on Mar 7, 2017 0:14:27 GMT -5
I've talked to the engineers at Vectorworks, there are some ideas floating around for possible solutions, but all require some hefty work on the Vectorworks side, so a solution may not make it into VW2018.
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Post by Mickey on Mar 15, 2017 13:49:52 GMT -5
So here's what we came up with as a work around.
Let's assume you are starting from scratch, and haven't started the plot on a working file yet. (because that's ugly)
Master user creates SHOW.vxwp (Project file)
I open that file at VW auto creates SHOW_mickey.vwxw (working file), and save that file in the same folder on the Dropbox.
- Note this only works if you have the desktop app and these files are saved on a local hard drive
I create a new blank file and save it as SHOW-LIGHTING.vwx.
- In SHOW-LIGHTING.vwx I create a workgroup reference to SHOW.vwxp to pull in all of the information, and draw my light plot on my own lighting layer with all of my proprietary classes.
- In this file I can link to LW6 as it's a .vwx file
Next I open SHOW_mickey.vwxw and create a viewport reference to SHOW-LIGHTING.vwx and turn off all other layers except my "lighting" layer. I save and commit.
If I open SHOW.vwxp (which will auto create a new working file but don't save it!) I can see the referenced viewport.
Again in order for this to work all of these files have to be in the dropbox app, but not required to all be in the same folder.
So far this is working, and has not created any data drama. (I think)
Is this an annoying pain in the ass.
YES!
But at least it works so far.
UPDATE 12/07/17: I've been using this above method all year on several shows, and it works. It's a bit of a pain to setup up initially, but it works fine. We've had as many as 5 working files in a project (scenic, production, lighting, video, audio) and my work around has not caused any issues.
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Post by shrunkenned on Mar 15, 2017 14:35:02 GMT -5
Cool, thanks Mickey. Have to try it out. Sounds like it would work, in theory.
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Post by mjschroeder94 on Dec 7, 2017 9:59:00 GMT -5
If only (1) user is dealing with the lighting for the project, can the XML file be created by the working file only then?
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Post by Mickey on Dec 7, 2017 12:41:47 GMT -5
If only (1) user is dealing with the lighting for the project, can the XML file be created by the working file only then? Negative. You have to understand how project sharing, and LW data exchange work. VW uses the XML file as a database, and compares who wrote to the database last to determine where updates are taken from. There is only 1 XML file, and it's either used for project sharing, or LW. Once you are in a project sharing workflow you can not uses LW data exchange. It will corrupt the XML file, and break the project sharing link. I know I've tried. The only way (at least as of VW2017) to get data exchange and project sharing to work is to follow my examples stated earlier. |
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Post by ekincl on Feb 1, 2018 12:39:03 GMT -5
I just did a quick experiment, and each working file creates its own XML file for data sharing. You should be able to use LW with your personal XML file based off your working file. The main project file doesn't (and shouldn't) create any XML files.
Tested 2018-02-01 on Vectorworks 2018.
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Post by Mickey on Feb 1, 2018 12:42:09 GMT -5
I just did a quick experiment, and each working file creates its own XML file for data sharing. You should be able to use LW with your personal XML file based off your working file. The main project file doesn't (and shouldn't) create any XML files. Tested 2018-02-01 on Vectorworks 2018. Maybe 2018 fixes it. I haven't tried yet. The problem is that there is only 1 XML. Project sharing uses that XML file to sync changes with the master file. Once you introduce Lightwright it corrupts the project sharing file, and bad things happen. |
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Post by johnmcsoft on Feb 12, 2018 0:44:40 GMT -5
I just did a quick experiment, and each working file creates its own XML file for data sharing. You should be able to use LW with your personal XML file based off your working file. The main project file doesn't (and shouldn't) create any XML files. Tested 2018-02-01 on Vectorworks 2018. That might work, but only if that person - and nobody else, ever - turns on Data Exchange. There can be only one .xml file, ever - and I'm not sure if the working file really does read & write the .xml file the way it does on a non-sharing .vwx file. |
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Post by Robi87 on Aug 8, 2018 9:00:21 GMT -5
Hi there,
I am working with LW for about 3-4 years now. The introduction of Project Sharing into VW 2017 was a big step for everybodys workaround. Too bad that it is officially not compatible to LW. I don't think Vectorworks will make this work, ever. It is more likely, that there will be completly new solution, maybe via GDTF, I don't now.
As expected I had many many problems with VW 2017/18 an LW6 and found some solutions. Most of them have already been posted.
What doesn't work:
- Two or more users are dealing with LDs (Lighting Devices) directly in a Project File
-> The Function "Refreshing Instruments" wants to check out ALL LDs in the drawing if you have nothing selected. If other users have their own LDs checked out, the operation will be canceled. Select the Instruments you want to refresh and run the Command again
-> MORE IMPORTANT! You will get the LDs from the other users into your LW File, but as they are checked out by other users, you cannot edit them. LW always wants to edit ALL LDs of a File, so the whole operation will be canceled. You will not be able to edit your own LDs anymore.
- Multiple LW Files
-> Because there is only one XML file, there cannot be multiple LW Files. It is not possible to tell LW File 1 to grab information only from VW fields A, B and C and to tell LW File 2 to grab information only from VW fields D, E and F.
-> This is also not possible in Non-Project-Files
What works for me:
- only one person draws LDs directly in a Project File (not 100% recommended)
-> as ekincl already mentioned: You must select the XLM of your WORKING file.
-> keep all 3 Files (.vwxw working File, LW File and XML) in the same folder
-> When you have an active link between LW and VW, always keep all LDs checked out
A few colleagues and I worked this way on a lot of big projects over the last year. We had some problems, but we cannot be 100% sure, that this problems appeared because of the VW Sharing Function. We had most of the problems also in Non-Project-Files (duplicated or lost Fixtures, changes are not made to LW or VW) We are working on a local server with Gigabyte Connection and SMB, Mac and Win Clients. No Dropbox. If you have to work via VPN it is faster to work in Offline-Mode (even if you are not refreshing or committing), but I think this fact has nothing to do with the Data Exchange.
- multiple users draw LDs and want to use LW
the solution mentoined by Mickey is the safest workaround for dealing with Project Files and LW. But YES, this workaround is really pain in the ass!
-> everybody who wants to draw LDs must draw them in an OWN and seperate, f.e. named "LD" File.
1. Reference everything you want from the Project File into this "LD" File, I recommend working with Design Layer Viewports.
2. Draw your LDs
3. In your Working File reference back to your "LD" File (only the layer with your LDs)
-> do NOT reference LDs from the Master or other Files in to this "LD" File -> they will appear in LW (it is only a Reference, but the LD and all the data is transferred into this File)
-> keep "LD" File, LW File and XML in the same Folder
Project Sharing becomes more and more stable so make use of it!
I hope this helps
BR from Muenster, Germany
-Rob
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Post by Mickey on Feb 14, 2019 21:33:31 GMT -5
- multiple users draw LDs and want to use LW the solution mentoined by Mickey is the safest workaround for dealing with Project Files and LW. But YES, this workaround is really pain in the ass! -> everybody who wants to draw LDs must draw them in an OWN and seperate, f.e. named "LD" File. 1. Reference everything you want from the Project File into this "LD" File, I recommend working with Design Layer Viewports. 2. Draw your LDs 3. In your Working File reference back to your "LD" File (only the layer with your LDs) -> do NOT reference LDs from the Master or other Files in to this "LD" File -> they will appear in LW (it is only a Reference, but the LD and all the data is transferred into this File) -> keep "LD" File, LW File and XML in the same Folder Project Sharing becomes more and more stable so make use of it! I hope this helps BR from Muenster, Germany -Rob
It's been awhile since I posted anything here, and I wanted to give a quick update now there we're using 2019. I'm still using the method I described earlier and now that I'm used to I don't want to work any other way. There is a nice freedom have a stand alone "Lighting" file separate from the project and doing this circular reference. For one it keeps the class structure from getting totally polluted. The way the people at VW have decided to class objects is mind boggling, and a drawing can filled with garbage classes quickly. By having a stand alone drawing that I, and my lighting team work in I only have the classes I need for my objects. I also have been using the MA export tool successfully with my stand alone file that also doesn't play well with project files. Using LW, VW, and MA export I have a total show ready to program right in the CAD file. It's powerful stuff.
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eric
New Member
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Post by eric on Jun 3, 2021 10:37:53 GMT -5
Hello,
The company I design for is about to roll out Project Sharing. We are currently using VW2020. I tried Project Sharing with Lightwright and didn't have an issue on the first job. I then tried it on a larger job and that is when I started having trouble. I tried the workaround that Micky created, but the VWXP file has trouble referencing the Lighting Devices. The LDs arent visible. Everything else is. It doesn't seem to be a layer/class visibility issue that I can tell. Anything that isn't a LD is viewable. Is there something I am missing?
-Eric
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