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Post by cookienz on Apr 6, 2020 13:23:57 GMT -5
Hi all,
I'm trying to devise a system for working in rep with 6 shows at an opera house. Ideally each show will have it's own VWX file to allow for multiple lighting supervisors to work independently. But it would be useful to be able to reference in the other 5 shows to see what lights are being used elsewhere.
As referenced lights also appear in the XML file, I need a way of filtering out the 5 extra shows from the Lightwright of the show I'm working on. The most sensible way to me would be to use Systems to do this. But, I'd really like an 'used' category to file lights that are part of the standard rig, but not used in that particular show.
So the conundrum is I would like 7 systems. But Lightwright only supports 6 systems. Any suggestions?
Thanks and keep safe out there.
Cookie
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Post by nik on Apr 7, 2020 10:10:26 GMT -5
I would stay away from using Systems to do this. Think of Systems as Console Operating Systems and not as a "system". It stems from the days of having an Obsession running conventionals and a HogII running moving lights. It allows you to use overlapping channels, universes, and adresses without generating confusing conflicts. Most modern shows will using two consoles will the Moving Light and Conventional console together into one show file. I have used Systems when doing events where maybe the VIP tent has a separate console from the main tent.
Your best bet would be to use your own User Field that gets either the Show Name or Rep and then set a Limit that looks for your Show Name or Rep. That way only the lights you see are relevant for your show.
I don't think you can use the XML files for this though. They use a unique identifier within VW to link the lights between the two programs. You would need to Merge the LW files manually though.
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Post by cookienz on Apr 7, 2020 11:53:46 GMT -5
Hi Nik,
Thanks for the reply. Indeed overlapping channels, universes, and addresses is preciously the problem in this instance. Pretty much everything in each show VWX will overlap with every other show, hence me leaning towards systems as a way of preserving functionality in LW. Although on further investigation it seems the DMX address map is the only function I've found so far which doesn't respect limits. (Unless you're aware of anything else that limits don't apply to?) The error checking seems to work, and that was a key area I wanted to maintain.
So I suspect the way forward is to use a User Field as you suggest and just accept the DMX address map will no longer be of use. Unless anyone knows a workaround to get it to work with limits? Not the end of the world as the DMX address map is now basically replicated within VW2020.
Cheers,
Cookie
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Post by cookienz on Apr 7, 2020 12:28:03 GMT -5
Update to the above: The 'DMX Patch' window in VW2020 also separates by system. (Although helpfully VW offers 26 systems!). So unless Systems are allocated in the VW file, 'DMX patch' would also become basically useless with multiple show VWX files referenced into each other.
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Post by nik on Apr 8, 2020 8:53:36 GMT -5
You really want to get comfortable with limits and avoid systems. Having worked for a dance company with 20+ ballets in rep while touring this was the only way to make things work.
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Post by cookienz on Apr 8, 2020 10:28:52 GMT -5
Hi Nik, Apologies, I haven’t explained myself clearly here. I’m very happy to utilise Limits, and do so regularly. But so far as I can tell, the DMX Address Map function in LW does not respect limits. Let’s say for example we have Show A & Show B. Show A has a Viper patched at 1/001. Show B has a BMFL patched at 1/002. If Show B VWX file is referenced into the Show A VWX file, fixture information for Show B lights will also come across into the Lightwright file for Show A. (I’d love to know if there is a way to stop this?) If we head over to Lightwright and create a limit to only display Show A lights (done in this instance with the ‘Purpose’ field). Show B lights are hidden from the worksheet, but still appear in the DMX address Map. This makes the DMX Map pretty much useless. The same is true of the DMX Patch window in Vectorworks 2020. (Screen shot attached).  You seem strongly against using systems. Could you elaborate further on your reasoning for that? I suspect my best way forward is to use the 6 systems that LW gives me and then utilise a User Field to filter out the unused lights in my system. In theory the used lights should not create patch conflicts, so it won’t matter if they are in the same system as the show. But still keen to hear if anyone else has any thoughts? Cheers, Cookie Attachments:
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Post by johnmcsoft on Apr 8, 2020 13:37:32 GMT -5
Cookie, This is the first time anyone has asked about this, so it's definitely worth a conversation about it. A System is all of the lights, dimmers, console, and other hardware that comprise a complete working "system", this will never change. The vast majority of shows have just one system. If the electrician wants to keep track of house lights, those are often in system B because they're controlled by their own dedicated dimming system. You do indeed have just one system, with some lights being used on shows on (for example) Monday and Tuesday, others on Wednesday and Saturday, and some of Monday's lights being used also on Sunday's shows. Most theaters use the Marks field to identify which lights are used in which show when doing rep. You can have lights with multiple marks and then use Limits to control what you're seeing - for instance show A, or AC, or BD, or E, or whatever. The characters you choose for allowable marks means you could number each show, or use an appropriate letter. "O" for Othello, "H" for Hamlet, "M" for Music Man, and "OH" for lights that are used in both Othello and Hamlet and maybe "A" for shows that are used in all shows. Then set Limits to look for specific combinations of each character. Then when you want to print paperwork for "Othello", you set a limit to look for both O and A and then do your printing/counting/error checking/etc. Keep in mind that the DMX map is based on addresses, and addresses are specific to the System. It would be dangerous for a Limit to screen out addresses that are in fact in use at one point or another during the week. If you decide to use a special that's currently in use for one show also for another show, the address of a light in the second show might overlap the first one, without any way of you noticing. Patching lights to a range of addresses that appear to empty, but are actually being used, just not on Mondays and Wednesdays. I don't know what the ultimate solution is, because it means a lot of mind reading. Maybe it wold mean an option of having the DMX map conform to limits, but then it would be up to the user to be careful to not overlap patches, which is what a non-limited DMX map would show you. My current feeling is that the DMX map should always show everything that is patched, but the user is still free to overlap patches if they know what they're doing - which you are. As far as Vectorworks goes, I would have all of the lights for all shows in a single .vwx file, even if some of them are piled on top of each other. This way everybody works off of the same plot, equipment, and control. If instrument types change (for instance No. 1 Elec #4 is a S4-19 in one show and a S4-26 in another), then put two lights on the plot (which means two worksheet rows in Lightwright) on to of each other. Use Marks and Limits in Lightwright to produce paperwork specific to each show. There are lots of other things to explore. Maybe set up classes in Vectorworks to control visibility of lights for each show on the light plot? You can use class as a limit, and you can change the actual class assigned to each light from within Lightwright's worksheet. Setting a limit based on marks would make it relatively easy to change class assignments with minimal work - as long as you're careful..  Maybe the DMX map could show addresses assigned to lights not in the current Limit in grey or some other kind of indication that the addresses aren't in the current Limit, but are in use somewhere else? Feel free to email me directly and we can continue the conversation. - John McKernon |
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Post by cookienz on Apr 9, 2020 5:34:47 GMT -5
Hi John,
Thanks for taking the time to write such an in-depth response. Always happy to try and find new ways to use your software!
The option to grey lights in the DMX map which are outside of the current active limit is an interesting prospect.
I'll drop you an email to continue the conversation, but I'm sure there's a path ahead in there somewhere.
All the best,
Cookie
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